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	<title>Comments on: Does FMS Methodology REALLY Work?</title>
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	<link>http://chasingstrength.com/does-fms-methodology-really-work/</link>
	<description>Strength: noun. the ability to overcome.</description>
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		<title>By: Joe Wood</title>
		<link>http://chasingstrength.com/does-fms-methodology-really-work/comment-page-1/#comment-1326</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Wood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2010 18:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingstrength.com/?p=285#comment-1326</guid>
		<description>Geoff,

First in the pursuit of &quot;learning&quot; each method offers some insights into a greater understanding of human motion.  Z-health offers the understanding of mobility while the FMS looks at movement under load.

I think Gray Cook hit on something here in regards to analyzing movement and as a screening tool of where the weak link is.  However, in dealing with chronic pain patients I believe there is more underlying patterns that might need to be evaluated.  

Pavel Kolar and his DNS methods I find to be pretty interesting.  I also believe more time needs to be spent in understanding the &quot;inner core&quot;.  Chi Gung is a GREAT adjunct and probably where things should start.  

Chi Gung IS inner core training of spinal stabilization, respiration and continence.  Once Chi Gung is learned then a person can progress to Tai Chi or fluid movement with breath.

Yoga would also fit into this phase II program after understanding breath or breathing.

Again, Gray Cook has really hit on something with the FMS and SFMA.  I just question where it fits into the clinical picture and other things might need to addressed first such as breathing and posture.  Z-health could also be incorporated in this phase or phase I of building a foundation of movement.

The Egoscue Method could also fit in nicely in the Phase I of rehab as well as Total Motion Release concepts (working the good side to fix the bad).

There are a lot of things out there and I myself personally am still trying to wrap my mind around these concepts, how they work, when to employ them, etc.

Keep learning, gain understanding and enjoy the journey.

Joe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoff,</p>
<p>First in the pursuit of &#8220;learning&#8221; each method offers some insights into a greater understanding of human motion.  Z-health offers the understanding of mobility while the FMS looks at movement under load.</p>
<p>I think Gray Cook hit on something here in regards to analyzing movement and as a screening tool of where the weak link is.  However, in dealing with chronic pain patients I believe there is more underlying patterns that might need to be evaluated.  </p>
<p>Pavel Kolar and his DNS methods I find to be pretty interesting.  I also believe more time needs to be spent in understanding the &#8220;inner core&#8221;.  Chi Gung is a GREAT adjunct and probably where things should start.  </p>
<p>Chi Gung IS inner core training of spinal stabilization, respiration and continence.  Once Chi Gung is learned then a person can progress to Tai Chi or fluid movement with breath.</p>
<p>Yoga would also fit into this phase II program after understanding breath or breathing.</p>
<p>Again, Gray Cook has really hit on something with the FMS and SFMA.  I just question where it fits into the clinical picture and other things might need to addressed first such as breathing and posture.  Z-health could also be incorporated in this phase or phase I of building a foundation of movement.</p>
<p>The Egoscue Method could also fit in nicely in the Phase I of rehab as well as Total Motion Release concepts (working the good side to fix the bad).</p>
<p>There are a lot of things out there and I myself personally am still trying to wrap my mind around these concepts, how they work, when to employ them, etc.</p>
<p>Keep learning, gain understanding and enjoy the journey.</p>
<p>Joe</p>
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		<title>By: GEOFFN</title>
		<link>http://chasingstrength.com/does-fms-methodology-really-work/comment-page-1/#comment-1141</link>
		<dc:creator>GEOFFN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 21:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingstrength.com/?p=285#comment-1141</guid>
		<description>Jason - remember pain is an indicator that a problem may exist, not a guarantee. So, pain may also come to be associated and coexist with certain movements. I&#039;d look up Andrew Read, an RKC in Australia and see if he can help you or give you some pointers locally. Hope that helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason &#8211; remember pain is an indicator that a problem may exist, not a guarantee. So, pain may also come to be associated and coexist with certain movements. I&#8217;d look up Andrew Read, an RKC in Australia and see if he can help you or give you some pointers locally. Hope that helps.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://chasingstrength.com/does-fms-methodology-really-work/comment-page-1/#comment-1137</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 23:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingstrength.com/?p=285#comment-1137</guid>
		<description>Geoff - just like to say your post are great. I&#039;m new to your site and all your advice. I&#039;m from Australia and i&#039;m always looking for educated people to learn from.I had a really bad accident 3 years ago smashing my leg/ankle into many pieces.Already being a personal trainer I now have gone down the road of learning more about rehab and balancing the body.I was told i may never walk again but being very determined i&#039;m walking but still have a long way to go before i&#039;m pain free, i would love just 1 day without pain.Any advice or education is appreiciated.Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoff &#8211; just like to say your post are great. I&#8217;m new to your site and all your advice. I&#8217;m from Australia and i&#8217;m always looking for educated people to learn from.I had a really bad accident 3 years ago smashing my leg/ankle into many pieces.Already being a personal trainer I now have gone down the road of learning more about rehab and balancing the body.I was told i may never walk again but being very determined i&#8217;m walking but still have a long way to go before i&#8217;m pain free, i would love just 1 day without pain.Any advice or education is appreiciated.Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Russ Moon</title>
		<link>http://chasingstrength.com/does-fms-methodology-really-work/comment-page-1/#comment-692</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ Moon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingstrength.com/?p=285#comment-692</guid>
		<description>Brett - KG FTGU - YES, it was on my x-mas list as &quot;Either buy this for me someone OR I will buy it myself.&quot; Press to Elbow reviewed the DVD prior to this response ...my gut tells me you would direct to either pattern work or piece work to shore that up...given I have the text and DVD I will do so on my TGU days OR if you reference a certain piece of your material since I have it I would know exactly where to look. 

Czech - the guy my Dr. studied under has the name &quot;Pavel&quot; but is not the same Pavel of ETK reference.  I would not have believed the results had I not continued to witness them, but I can see/feel/perform the difference with each session. Pelvis tilt changed, breathing changed, shoulders sloping down instead of my former overly tight peck minor, hips opened up (that is still tender).  I mentioned your work to him and he claims to have shared a training class at some point with Mr. Gray Cook. Can&#039;t substantiate that claim, but he put it out there and I am picky about who I listen to so he is still under my microscope. His results speak loudly though.

Geoff - the person and this blog are the reason I purchased your material, which I am so glad I did and after only a small whiff of what this movement does I am really intrigued because I know it is much deeper I just don&#039;t know enough to know what all those other benefits are yet. I just know I feel conditioning, opening of the shoulder, different posture, increased hip flexibility, wrist strengthening all at once and it is almost overwhelming.....but I didn&#039;t experience any of this unitl Geoff laid the gauntlet down in Dec. saying Program Minimum Month....so at a certain point I went from naked to weighted and liked it.

Geoff - I&#039;m a former paratrooper so I relate to the &quot;field stripping&quot; analogy and I like these simple movements in ETK because they are field strippable.  I am doing one arm cleans and thinking &quot;gosh at the bottom of this swing as I start the hip thrust it almost feels like my right shoulder is doing a &quot;mini&quot; lawn mower move similar to a high-pull. My left elbow was a little tender, wasn&#039;t locking it and sucking the shoulder into socket enough. Going to drill deeper right where I am at.

Mid-month - started month with 70 continuous 24 kg snatches then only 12 rounds 15:15 on gymboss w 16kg 7 snatches per round. Now up to 42 rounds of 16kg. My goal is to reach 80 rounds by month end.
Using my TGU as &quot;active rest&quot; and I just like how is limbers me up and fixes me.  Any swings I are on the gymboss set at 15:15 using 32kg two hand for those, made it to 40 rounds.   A little goblet squat action, alot of Pavelizer 2 janda&#039;s and that&#039;s about it outside of a once a week &quot;my dip max went up another 10 lbs&quot; verifying the strength increase in a different environment. Going really old school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brett &#8211; KG FTGU &#8211; YES, it was on my x-mas list as &#8220;Either buy this for me someone OR I will buy it myself.&#8221; Press to Elbow reviewed the DVD prior to this response &#8230;my gut tells me you would direct to either pattern work or piece work to shore that up&#8230;given I have the text and DVD I will do so on my TGU days OR if you reference a certain piece of your material since I have it I would know exactly where to look. </p>
<p>Czech &#8211; the guy my Dr. studied under has the name &#8220;Pavel&#8221; but is not the same Pavel of ETK reference.  I would not have believed the results had I not continued to witness them, but I can see/feel/perform the difference with each session. Pelvis tilt changed, breathing changed, shoulders sloping down instead of my former overly tight peck minor, hips opened up (that is still tender).  I mentioned your work to him and he claims to have shared a training class at some point with Mr. Gray Cook. Can&#8217;t substantiate that claim, but he put it out there and I am picky about who I listen to so he is still under my microscope. His results speak loudly though.</p>
<p>Geoff &#8211; the person and this blog are the reason I purchased your material, which I am so glad I did and after only a small whiff of what this movement does I am really intrigued because I know it is much deeper I just don&#8217;t know enough to know what all those other benefits are yet. I just know I feel conditioning, opening of the shoulder, different posture, increased hip flexibility, wrist strengthening all at once and it is almost overwhelming&#8230;..but I didn&#8217;t experience any of this unitl Geoff laid the gauntlet down in Dec. saying Program Minimum Month&#8230;.so at a certain point I went from naked to weighted and liked it.</p>
<p>Geoff &#8211; I&#8217;m a former paratrooper so I relate to the &#8220;field stripping&#8221; analogy and I like these simple movements in ETK because they are field strippable.  I am doing one arm cleans and thinking &#8220;gosh at the bottom of this swing as I start the hip thrust it almost feels like my right shoulder is doing a &#8220;mini&#8221; lawn mower move similar to a high-pull. My left elbow was a little tender, wasn&#8217;t locking it and sucking the shoulder into socket enough. Going to drill deeper right where I am at.</p>
<p>Mid-month &#8211; started month with 70 continuous 24 kg snatches then only 12 rounds 15:15 on gymboss w 16kg 7 snatches per round. Now up to 42 rounds of 16kg. My goal is to reach 80 rounds by month end.<br />
Using my TGU as &#8220;active rest&#8221; and I just like how is limbers me up and fixes me.  Any swings I are on the gymboss set at 15:15 using 32kg two hand for those, made it to 40 rounds.   A little goblet squat action, alot of Pavelizer 2 janda&#8217;s and that&#8217;s about it outside of a once a week &#8220;my dip max went up another 10 lbs&#8221; verifying the strength increase in a different environment. Going really old school.</p>
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		<title>By: Betsy Collie</title>
		<link>http://chasingstrength.com/does-fms-methodology-really-work/comment-page-1/#comment-691</link>
		<dc:creator>Betsy Collie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingstrength.com/?p=285#comment-691</guid>
		<description>I know where you are coming from regarding Z Health. I guess for me I just selectively pick and choose those elements I can learn from and apply and don&#039;t get caught up in the politics of it all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know where you are coming from regarding Z Health. I guess for me I just selectively pick and choose those elements I can learn from and apply and don&#8217;t get caught up in the politics of it all.</p>
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		<title>By: GEOFFN</title>
		<link>http://chasingstrength.com/does-fms-methodology-really-work/comment-page-1/#comment-690</link>
		<dc:creator>GEOFFN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingstrength.com/?p=285#comment-690</guid>
		<description>Betsy - Yeah, I failed to mention I have one client who Z does very little for. He&#039;s made more progress off the GU and CK-FMS strategies in the last 3 months than in the previous year. The GU is definitely overlooked and underrated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Betsy &#8211; Yeah, I failed to mention I have one client who Z does very little for. He&#8217;s made more progress off the GU and CK-FMS strategies in the last 3 months than in the previous year. The GU is definitely overlooked and underrated.</p>
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		<title>By: GEOFFN</title>
		<link>http://chasingstrength.com/does-fms-methodology-really-work/comment-page-1/#comment-689</link>
		<dc:creator>GEOFFN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingstrength.com/?p=285#comment-689</guid>
		<description>Betsy - There is some truth to your statement, but what you fail to realize is that Z-Health claims to be that ONE WAY, if not overtly promulgated, passively sanctioned by all in the movement, including its leaders. The controversy lies in that claim, attitude, and position. More than one Z Trainer has dismissed CK-FMS/FMS in the past (myself included) and many are still currently doing so. What they fail to see/acknowledge is the &lt;em&gt;documented&lt;/em&gt; proof that FMS has collected over the last 13 years. 

Now it sounds like I&#039;m in the &quot;FMS Camp&quot; - I&#039;m not, yet. Not fully. Just explaining what I&#039;ve observed and experienced both personally and professionally over the last 4 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Betsy &#8211; There is some truth to your statement, but what you fail to realize is that Z-Health claims to be that ONE WAY, if not overtly promulgated, passively sanctioned by all in the movement, including its leaders. The controversy lies in that claim, attitude, and position. More than one Z Trainer has dismissed CK-FMS/FMS in the past (myself included) and many are still currently doing so. What they fail to see/acknowledge is the <em>documented</em> proof that FMS has collected over the last 13 years. </p>
<p>Now it sounds like I&#8217;m in the &#8220;FMS Camp&#8221; &#8211; I&#8217;m not, yet. Not fully. Just explaining what I&#8217;ve observed and experienced both personally and professionally over the last 4 years.</p>
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		<title>By: GEOFFN</title>
		<link>http://chasingstrength.com/does-fms-methodology-really-work/comment-page-1/#comment-688</link>
		<dc:creator>GEOFFN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingstrength.com/?p=285#comment-688</guid>
		<description>Brett - Thanks for your continued help. You truly are a real Master Trainer. Keep up your great work and your contributions to the fitness/exercise/health communities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brett &#8211; Thanks for your continued help. You truly are a real Master Trainer. Keep up your great work and your contributions to the fitness/exercise/health communities.</p>
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		<title>By: GEOFFN</title>
		<link>http://chasingstrength.com/does-fms-methodology-really-work/comment-page-1/#comment-687</link>
		<dc:creator>GEOFFN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingstrength.com/?p=285#comment-687</guid>
		<description>Hi Doc - Long time. Your experience with the Z attitude is unfortunate. Z is not more complete. In fact, it dismisses some observable neuromechanical facts that, if ignored, will come back to haunt the practitioner later on. Yes, I said neuromechanical, not just &quot;neuro.&quot; FMS has a lot to offer, and makes up for some faulty logic promulgated in Z. Ignore it at your own peril. I did. And then paid a price. There is something to be said for repeatedly observable phenomenon. 

Hips and back feeling great. The only thing that doesn&#039;t feel great is having to rebuild! Sometimes I wish I still had my compensations - they were compensation but were strong none the less!

Saints were phenomenal. 

Talk to you soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Doc &#8211; Long time. Your experience with the Z attitude is unfortunate. Z is not more complete. In fact, it dismisses some observable neuromechanical facts that, if ignored, will come back to haunt the practitioner later on. Yes, I said neuromechanical, not just &#8220;neuro.&#8221; FMS has a lot to offer, and makes up for some faulty logic promulgated in Z. Ignore it at your own peril. I did. And then paid a price. There is something to be said for repeatedly observable phenomenon. </p>
<p>Hips and back feeling great. The only thing that doesn&#8217;t feel great is having to rebuild! Sometimes I wish I still had my compensations &#8211; they were compensation but were strong none the less!</p>
<p>Saints were phenomenal. </p>
<p>Talk to you soon.</p>
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		<title>By: GEOFFN</title>
		<link>http://chasingstrength.com/does-fms-methodology-really-work/comment-page-1/#comment-686</link>
		<dc:creator>GEOFFN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chasingstrength.com/?p=285#comment-686</guid>
		<description>Jim - Thanks for the encouragement. You&#039;re not the only one who has had those thoughts on the blending of the 2 schools of thought! I&#039;ve got plenty of stories to tell but don&#039;t have time to get into them here. Just keep up all the great work you&#039;re doing for your patients. Thanks for stopping by and posting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim &#8211; Thanks for the encouragement. You&#8217;re not the only one who has had those thoughts on the blending of the 2 schools of thought! I&#8217;ve got plenty of stories to tell but don&#8217;t have time to get into them here. Just keep up all the great work you&#8217;re doing for your patients. Thanks for stopping by and posting.</p>
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